(no subject)

[jmatonak]

I had a huge entry about comics, but I feel it was poorly written, and also huge.

Here are the bullet points.

1. I like female super-hero and super-villain characters.
2. Stop killing them, writers of super-hero comics.
3. If you don't want to write a character, you don't have to. They can be moved offstage in a non-fatal way.
4. It is perfectly okay to occasionally have a female super-hero who is peppy and quippy and doesn't take everything so damn seriously or angst about her place in the world on every page.
Spider-Man cracks jokes. Other heroes, even female ones, can crack jokes too.
6. I hereby threaten dire consequences if anyone tries to kill off Miss Martian from Teen Titans. Heads will roll. Oh yes.

Comments

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

Have you seen any of the new White Tiger? (Have i asked you this before?If so, sorry 'bout that).

[jmatonak.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen it yet, but I have it on order.

Is she quippy?

[timeliebe.livejournal.com]

"Quippy" is perhaps too strong a word. Angela/White Tiger has a very dry, ironic sense of humor - kind of like her female creator (http://tammy212.livejournal.com/), whose blog you frequent. :)

The male half of the creative team supplies the quips - which the female half generally ends up shuffling off to Spider-Man (in case you were wondering why he's always showing up!).

Gotta get them smartass comments in!
Tim Liebe
Dreaded Spouse-Creature (http://spousecreature.blogspot.com/) of Tamora Pierce (http://www.tamorapierce.com/)
- and co-writer of Marvel's White Tiger (http://www.tamorapierce.com/marvel.htm) comic

[jmatonak.livejournal.com]

I wasn't exactly sure how to say, "By the way, did you know one of the writers is on my friendslist?", so I didn't. :)

So far, my favorite joke has to be, "Hey! You're Emma Frost!"

[timeliebe.livejournal.com]

Well, there - I said it for you, Jesse! :D

One of the problems I've been having w/comics over the past couple decades is what I call the "Mopey Matt Syndrome", after how EVERYTHING always seems to turn to crap for Matt Murdock in DAREDEVIL, every time without fail. (Yeah - the irony that Tammy and I are now writing a character who originated in DAREDEVIL hasn't escaped me, either.) Somewhere comic book writers and editors got the idea that they could make their comics "deep" (and therefore closer to, you know, "real literature"!) by piling bad things on top of their angst-ridden heroes so they'd be even MORE angst-ridden, and could carry on about it for pages and pages without end.

Thing is, I'm old enough to remember that it began in reaction to the "perfect" superheroes of DC who only dealt with external conflicts and always got along fine with the authorities and each other. When Stan Lee, Jack Kirty, Steve Ditko et al first introduced Peter Parker aka The Amazing Spider-Man whose life was a sort of dark mirror of Superman's (i.e., instead of crusty-but-benign DAILY PLANET Editor Perry White as a boss, Peter got bullying, bigoted, exploitative tabloid BUGLE Publisher J. Jonah Jameson who gleefully whipped up public sentiment against his Spider-man alter ego!), it genuinely WAS fresh and innovative - but that was 45 years ago. By now, I've lived through Aunt May's and Mary Jane Watson-Parker's deaths (and rebirths!), Tony Stark's alcoholism, three (or is it four?) Robins, two Batgirls, Superman's and Green Arrow's deaths and rebirths, Batman recovering from a career-ending spinal injury, an Infinite Crisis, a Crisis on Infinite Earths and a Marvel Civil War...and both Green Lantern AND DareDevil staggering off, weeping crocodile tears behind a trail of dead wives and/or girlfriends (and yes, I include Foggy Nelson in the "dead wife" category). At this point, "I'm a superhero and my life is Hell" is an even bigger cliche than "I'm a superhero, and my powers solve all life's little problems" - and a LOT less satisfying to read about.

Honestly, I don't know how well WHITE TIGER is doing for Marvel - but from some of the feedback, it sounds like Tammy and I aren't the only ones who'd like to read a book about a superhero whose life doesn't constantly turn to crap, and who uses her gifts to triumph over adversity rather than be buried under it. It isn't and shouldn't be ALL good - but a balance between the bad and the good seems like a fun comic to write, at least to me.

Best,
Tim Liebe
Dreaded Spouse-Creature (http://spousecreature.blogspot.com/) of Tamora Pierce (http://www.tamorapierce.com/)
- and co-writer of Marvel's White Tiger (http://www.tamorapierce.com/marvel.htm) comic

PS: We pay off the Emma Frost running gag in WT#4! ;)

[timeliebe.livejournal.com]

"Kirby" - I meant Jack Kirby, of course!

Sigh,
Tim

[jmatonak.livejournal.com]

I'm not old enough to have bought any of the original Marvel stuff on the newsstand, but between a collection I inherited and the various reprints that have been done, I'm read most or all of it. I've done the "compare and contrast" between Marvel and DC books of the same period, and I can see how the Marvels must have come as a breath of fresh air.

I seem to recall that there was much more of a balance between happiness and unhappiness back then. The Thing hated being the Thing, but really seemed to enjoy "clobberin' time"; the Human Torch loved to fly. Even Spider-Man usually seemed to be enjoying himself.

(I guess I could sum up these last two paragraphs by saying yeah, yeah, I agree. :) )

I sometimes think that "reader identification" in super-hero books is taken to mean the opposite of what it used to. Many creators seem to be provoking a reaction along the lines of, "thank god I don't have super powers, I wouldn't want to have to deal with all that."

I noticed and appreciated the little moment(s) of "life is good" in WHITE TIGER.

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

Four Robins! Stephanie counts :)

Hey Tim! You don't know me, but I've been reading Tammy's books for, um, almost 25 years now. (Wow, that doesn't seem possible!)

I was also going to call Angela dry/ironic, and not quippy, but she does have a sense of humor and I appreciate that.

[jmatonak.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I count Carrie Kelley as well, which makes five.

[timeliebe.livejournal.com]

Five - thanks, I'm sort of out of the Batman loop lately! The only DC comic I'm regularly reading is BIRDS OF PREY, and was even before Tammy and I got to know Gail Simone online - though I've started w/ALL-NEW ATOM b/c Gail's writing it, and I find all the pop culture jokes really hilarious. (I also think Ryan Choi's a fun nonstereotypical Asian lead character, and don't get why Jenn (http://www.reappropriate.com/?p=605) and some other Asian bloggers are giving Gail a beatdown over it.) I often browse ACTION COMICS at Wegman's, and while I like it well enough it's not quite a "buy" for me.

It doesn't seem possible to you that you've been reading Tammy for 25 years! Think of how TAMMY feels about it, since she's been writing for that long! ;)

That's like the time Tammy's current Random House editor, Mallory Loeher, introduced herself to Tammy with a "Hi - I LOVED your books when I was a kid!" Tammy and I looked at each other and went, "We're not THAT old...are we...?"

Best,
Tim Liebe
Dreaded Spouse-Creature (http://spousecreature.blogspot.com/) of Tamora Pierce (http://www.tamorapierce.com/)
- and co-writer of Marvel's White Tiger (http://www.tamorapierce.com/marvel.htm) comic - #4 out now! :)